Ämne: F370 och hög temperatur på golvvärmesystemet

[BPH]

Hej!
Tyvärr, min svenska är verkligen dålig så jag använde google translate, original engelska versionen är nedan.
Jag flyttade till nybyggd radhus för några veckor sedan och har förinstallerat F370 + golvsystem med Uponor Smatrix (X-165 trådlösa termostater + drivrutiner och Uponor Fluvia T Push-23-BW) + några traditionella radiatorer på 2d och 3d våning.
Utvecklare inställd F370 för manuell drift och extra värmemodul aktiverades 24/7 som jag förstår. På en första dag förbrukade vi 38 kW / h (totalt sett har vi inte kontrollerat dedikerad mätare på F370) vilket är mycket och 97 på 3 dagar. Nu efter en viss inställning (automatisk läge, ingen extra värmemodul, värmevattenschema - 1: 30-5: 30 - av, maximal värmemetemperatur 35 (i systemmenyn) och så vidare) Jag har 4-6 kW / h på NIBE och 12-18 kW / h totalt. Jag anser det fortfarande vara högt för 2 vuxna + 1 barnfamiljer i maj och mycket måttlig användning av hett vatten. Och husisolerade är ganska bra.
Jag har fortfarande ganska varm temperatur på 1 våning ~ 23 C och lägger redan -3 till kurva men det verkar inte ha någon effekt. Vi måste öppna dörrar även under morgonen för att minska temperaturen lite.
Jag undersökte vidare och fick reda på att termometrarna på Uponor visar ganska höga siffror som bara matchar för varmvattenledning.
Är det möjligt att installatörer anslutna golvsystemet till varmt vatten (XL 4) linje istället för normal (XL 1)?
Är det normalt att göra sådan sak?

Bilder i bifogad.
-----------------------------
Hi!
Sorry my Swedish is really poor so I used google translate, original English version is below.
I moved to newly built townhouse few weeks ago and have pre-installed F370 + underfloor system with Uponor Smatrix ( X-165 wireless thermostats + drivers and Uponor Fluvia T Push PUSH-23-BW) + some traditional radiators on 2d and 3d floor.
Developer tuned F370 for manual mode and additional heating module was enabled 24/7 as I understand. In a first day we consumed 38 kW/h (overall, have not checked dedicated meter on F370 ) which is a lot, and 97 in 3 days. Now after some tuning (auto mode, no additional heating module, heat water schedule – 1:30-5:30 – off , maximum heat medium temperature 35 (in system menu) and so on) I have 4-6 kW/h on NIbe and 12-18 kW/h overall. I still consider it high for 2 adult + 1 child family in May and very moderate hot water usage. And house insulated is quite good.
I still have quite hot temperature on 1 floor ~23 C and already put -3 to curve but it does not seem to have any effect. We must open doors even during morning to decrease temperature little bit.
I investigated further and found out that thermometers on Uponor show quite high numbers which are match only for hot water line.
Is it possible that installers connected underfloor system to hot water (XL 4) line instead of normal (XL 1)?
Is it normal practice to do such thing?

Photos in attach.

[Carl N]

Hi!
You have to adjust the heating curve in menu 1.9.1, set it to a lower value.
The best way is to raise the underfloor thermostats to max and adjust the indoor temperature with the heating curve in F370 until you are satisfied.
It is not sufficiently just to lower the value in 1.1, you have to adjust the curve also.
You might have to lower the curve a lot, you should try value 3-4 for the curve or else lower.
   
I don't think they have connected the underfloor heating to the XL4, that is only for DHV.

[kWhalp]

Hej!
Tyvärr, min svenska är verkligen dålig så jag använde google translate, original engelska versionen är nedan.
Jag flyttade till nybyggd radhus för några veckor sedan och har förinstallerat F370 + golvsystem med Uponor Smatrix (X-165 trådlösa termostater + drivrutiner och Uponor Fluvia T Push-23-BW) + några traditionella radiatorer på 2d och 3d våning.
Utvecklare inställd F370 för manuell drift och extra värmemodul aktiverades 24/7 som jag förstår. På en första dag förbrukade vi 38 kW / h (totalt sett har vi inte kontrollerat dedikerad mätare på F370) vilket är mycket och 97 på 3 dagar. Nu efter en viss inställning (automatisk läge, ingen extra värmemodul, värmevattenschema - 1: 30-5: 30 - av, maximal värmemetemperatur 35 (i systemmenyn) och så vidare) Jag har 4-6 kW / h på NIBE och 12-18 kW / h totalt. Jag anser det fortfarande vara högt för 2 vuxna + 1 barnfamiljer i maj och mycket måttlig användning av hett vatten. Och husisolerade är ganska bra.
Jag har fortfarande ganska varm temperatur på 1 våning ~ 23 C och lägger redan -3 till kurva men det verkar inte ha någon effekt. Vi måste öppna dörrar även under morgonen för att minska temperaturen lite.
Jag undersökte vidare och fick reda på att termometrarna på Uponor visar ganska höga siffror som bara matchar för varmvattenledning.
Är det möjligt att installatörer anslutna golvsystemet till varmt vatten (XL 4) linje istället för normal (XL 1)?
Är det normalt att göra sådan sak?

Bilder i bifogad.
-----------------------------
Hi!
Sorry my Swedish is really poor so I used google translate, original English version is below.
I moved to newly built townhouse few weeks ago and have pre-installed F370 + underfloor system with Uponor Smatrix ( X-165 wireless thermostats + drivers and Uponor Fluvia T Push PUSH-23-BW) + some traditional radiators on 2d and 3d floor.
Developer tuned F370 for manual mode and additional heating module was enabled 24/7 as I understand. In a first day we consumed 38 kW/h (overall, have not checked dedicated meter on F370 ) which is a lot, and 97 in 3 days. Now after some tuning (auto mode, no additional heating module, heat water schedule – 1:30-5:30 – off , maximum heat medium temperature 35 (in system menu) and so on) I have 4-6 kW/h on NIbe and 12-18 kW/h overall. I still consider it high for 2 adult + 1 child family in May and very moderate hot water usage. And house insulated is quite good.
I still have quite hot temperature on 1 floor ~23 C and already put -3 to curve but it does not seem to have any effect. We must open doors even during morning to decrease temperature little bit.
I investigated further and found out that thermometers on Uponor show quite high numbers which are match only for hot water line.
Is it possible that installers connected underfloor system to hot water (XL 4) line instead of normal (XL 1)?
Is it normal practice to do such thing?

Photos in attach.

Your out door temperature sensor is wrongly placed.
It is subject to direct sunlight(35°C), unless you live abroad in a hotter climate?

Check that the compressor is running properly by looking at the frequency (i.e 20-120 Hz) in the information menues. If the compressor isnt running at all, that might explain the hefty energy consumption!

[mysman]

The heating should be off long ago with that kind of outside temp, so no need to try to tweak the heat curve since the circ.pump is off anyway.

The outside temp.sensor should be moved to North side in the shadow.

The inside 23°C isn't all that high either. What is the real outside temperature anyway?

I also have about 12-18kWh/day in total now so quite normal I would say.

But I agree, the Uponor gauges shouldn't be that high and might possibly be a incorrect connection of the hot water? It has happened before, I hear.

How long does it take to get heated water in tap?

Check the shunt mixer valve underneath to be set to auto NOT manual since it might be set to completely open of some reason...

[BPH]

Yep, they somehow decided to mount external temp. sensor just near the entrance door (no "north side" on my townhouse) but could easily do it under the balcony where there is no direct sunlight.
I live in Skane so during the day I took those photos there was ~22 outside.
We use Economy mode for water and it is takes 8-10 sec to get hot water from the tap.
 I touched XL 1 and it definitely does not feel like ~48 C.
Here are the settings I use (run in auto, compressor works just fine IMO, it starts regularly, normally it is in off state, take a look at Extract Air BT21 - sometimes it drops to 6 C.)
According to heating curve F370 shall use 20 C, why is it heats "medium" to 30? And it is completely unnatural to have "in" temp. less then "out" (BT2 BT3). They messed up with sensors... or hot water via Uponor actually heats XL 1 - XL 2 circuit
Another crazy idea that it is this is Wilo-Yonos pump generates a lot of heat (I normally keep thermostats at very low position) and heats the gauges. But... it is only 44 W at peak (I found it set to max speed by builders).
 Shunt mixer valve - I switched from 2 to 1  https://issuu.com/uponor/docs/uponor_im_fluvia_t_pumpgroup_push_2 (which changes desired circuit temp. from 25 to 20) have not felt much a difference.
Anyway if they set it up to use hot water to feed Uponor... that is pretty much stupid.
Is there any safe way to check? Can I just put hot water to off state via schedule and wait a little or it will take a long time to cool down?
Thanks!

[Carl N]

Check that the compressor is running properly by looking at the frequency (i.e 20-120 Hz) in the information menues. If the compressor isnt running at all, that might explain the hefty energy consumption!

Well it is a F370, that heat pump is on/off regulated.

The heat pump seems to work normal, I think the issue is that the circulation pump in the underfloor heating system is running all time and all underfloor thermostats is closed, then the water stand still and get heated by the circulation pump.
This underfloor circulation pump should be connected to the heat pump (AA3 - X7) to be closed when there is no heating demand.

[mysman]

According to heating curve F370 shall use 20 C, why is it heats "medium" to 30? And it is completely unnatural to have "in" temp. less then "out" (BT2 BT3).

The heat medium flow gets crazy readings when the flow stops because the circ.pump stops. Not to bother too much about that, it's normal. 

You changed the circ.pump speed from II to I, not the mixer valve. Change all things back to where it were if not getting any expected results.

The mixer valve is really back there behind and may be even hard to see.
Be sure to have it set to A.