Ämne: Mine tips til modernisering af Fighter 410P

[Lichtenberg]

Hej Nibe ejere,

Har netop moderniseret min Nibe 410P med nedenstånde.

Temperatur styring af indblæsningsbatteri styret via app med smartphone (se billede 01):
TA 3/8" radiatorventil (403390003) 90 kr.
Altech 230V telestat (046125121) 125 kr.
Devi Smart Touch (7224215713) 900 kr. - jeg har fortrådet cirkulationspumpen med telestaten.

Montering af krydsveksler (Se billede 02 - indtag/afkast blev monteret efter billede blev taget):
SAHRU150 (1500 kr.)
-Alternativ løsning som modstrømsveksler HR100R/RS, hvor ventilator demonteres og ekstra kerne isættes (2300+700 kr.)

Cirkulationspumpe:
Simflex 15-60 130 (380320160) 1550 kr.

Termostat til el-varmelegeme (er justerbar fra 0-65 °C):
Metro styreboks for 15-160 liter (345297440) 600 kr. - Jeg har kun tilkoblet 2 kW fra el-varmelegemet, beholder temperaturen er sat til 55 °C.
-Alternativt kan den nye Metro ECO styring bruges (345181906+5708512063395)

Kommende:
Danfoss Variable Speed Kompressor GLT99FSN 123B1991 (R134a) + VLT
-Alternativt kan Danfoss Fixed speed SC18G 195B0059 1,8 kW (R134a) være en billigere løsning (1900 kr.)
EBMPapst EC ventilatorer (G3G140-AV05-36) + MultiController E 0-100% 230V / ES 974 (4200+1100 kr.)
Lindab TVTBU Bypass spjæld imellem friskluft og udsugning (til sommerdrift når L/L er sat til køl)

Har kigget lidt på en løsning med at bruge varmepumpe beregnet til pools (luft/vand) via rørveksler (glykol fyldt på primære side).

Kom gerne med idéer til yderligere foreslag (og beklager at indlægget et skrevet på dansk) 

Flere billeder kommer asap.

[Lichtenberg]

Opdateret med priser (DKK) samt varenumre.

[burmanm]

On Finnish forum (lampopumput.info) one user changed the compressor to Hitachi-Highly WHP02000 PSV (http://www.ries-gmbh.de/index.php?module=products&index[products][action]=details&index[products][category]=146&index[products][data][products_id]=1129). That's a native R290 compressor (there's also a bigger model if you have enough airflow). You'll need to replace the Danfoss DMC2032S filter drier also after a compressor failure.

[Lichtenberg]

On Finnish forum (lampopumput.info) one user changed the compressor to Hitachi-Highly WHP02000 PSV (http://www.ries-gmbh.de/index.php?module=products&index[products][action]=details&index[products][category]=146&index[products][data][products_id]=1129). That's a native R290 compressor (there's also a bigger model if you have enough airflow). You'll need to replace the Danfoss DMC2032S filter drier also after a compressor failure.

Do you know if he used the Fighter 410P to control the compressor?

[burmanm]

Do you know if he used the Fighter 410P to control the compressor?

Yes he did (the 410P controller is kinda dumb, it only pushes electricity to the compressor - and has no knowledge if the compressor is even connected). If you want to use a inverter compressor, then you'll need to recreate the whole logic.

[Lichtenberg]

My thoughts were stripping the Fighter unit for nearly all sorts of logic.

LS Multicontrol to control fans
Metro Controller for the immersion heating
Haven't decided how im going to control the compressor yet.

[burmanm]

My thoughts were stripping the Fighter unit for nearly all sorts of logic.

Yeah, you have slightly older model with no EC-fan controlling I guess. But unless you have new requirements (such as additional condenser to reduce the temperature - which improves the COP) the original temperature based compressor controlling should work. Then again, it's not really a complex thing to control using the 410P's relays (I see no point in replacing those though - they should last for a long time).

Metro Controller for the immersion heating
Haven't decided how im going to control the compressor yet.

Now, if you could somehow control the amount of water mixing in the tank, there could be something useful to do with the immersion / compressor controlling. Immersion could keep the upper level high enough for hot water - but allow the lower part of the tank to go as low as possible for maximum COP. But at least with my flow rates, I haven't been able to do that - so another condenser could do that. For example, using the return water from the air heater.

Although, it wasn't quite clear to me how you're going to do the process with the FTX. It might freeze if you take too much energy from the air before pushing it to the FTX (so for that reason you might actually want a lower output level compressor - or bypass the FTX when compressor is running).

[Lichtenberg]

But unless you have new requirements (such as additional condenser to reduce the temperature - which improves the COP) the original temperature based compressor controlling should work. Then again, it's not really a complex thing to control using the 410P's relays (I see no point in replacing those though - they should last for a long time).

I agree, the fixed speed compressor should be no problem using the onboard relays.
The variable speed version needs a bit more tinkering, right now, im into what parameters/setpoints to use for stage dividing the compressor speed/load.

-Do notice that i have mounted a counterflow heat core, there by not wasting energy when compressor aint running.
Maybe also make the LS Multicontroller to run some sort of forced airflow when compressor is kicking in.

Now, if you could somehow control the amount of water mixing in the tank.

Yes thermal layering/mixing is almost impossible to control, the most ideal option is to use the fighter unit entirely for heating/ventilation and install a secondary combi (coil+immersion) tank for hot tap water.
 

[Lichtenberg]

Så fik jeg endelig monteret ny kompressor, nemlig en MPT12RA (R290) koster kun 1500 DKK og tager ca. 3-4 timer at installere inkl. gennemblæsning med nitrogen, trykprøvening med nitrogen i 30 min, samt vacuumsugning i 60. min.

Watt effekten er iht. billede spec sheet 02:
2,8 amp * 230v = 644 W kompressor effekt med en COP 4 -> 4*644=2,6 kW

Yderligere er MPT12RA en stempel kompressor og IKKE en rotations kompressor som den originale fra Mitsubishi dermed er der ingen resonans længere 

[burmanm]

Så fik jeg endelig monteret ny kompressor, nemlig en MPT12RA (R290) koster kun 1500 DKK og tager ca. 3-4 timer at installere inkl. gennemblæsning med nitrogen, trykprøvening med nitrogen i 30 min, samt vacuumsugning i 60. min.

Hur funkar det?

[Lichtenberg]

Per

Hur funkar det?

Perfekt, har kørt med blokeret el-patron lige siden