Ämne: Råd om LLVP i fritidhus i Engelska

[Schenk]

Hej

Jag är ny här och mina Svenska är inte så bra, jag hop du forstå Engelska
We have a vacationhous in South-East Värmland and stay there only from May untill October
We don´t warm the house during the winter and the walls have no insulation. Roof and floor have old insulation (sawdust)
Livingroom with open-kitchen is 65 m2 and 2,4 meter high
The house is cold when we arrive and I use 3-4 electric heaters to get the colt out and to keep it comfortable I use 2 heaters. All heaters are 2KW each.
I want to install a LLVP by my self and I am thinking about a DIY one from Jula or Byggmax or Cheapy
http://www.byggmax.com/se-sv/byggvaror/el-ventilation-energi/uppvarmning/luftvarmepump-luft-luft/64110010/luftvarmepump-sol#Product_information
http://www.jula.se/luftvarmepump-sc-1332-3200-w-417018
http://www.cheapy.se/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Produkt_10651_10551__117901_46____?intv_id=19504&mpe_id=10651&evtype=CpgnClick&storeId=10651&ddkey=http:ClickInfo
A company told me to install a Q-Heat but they are 6,5Kw and that cost ±20.000 sek including installation. I have no ROT avdrag. I think 6,5KW is to much but I don´t know if 3,5 is enough.
So my questions are :
Is 3,5KW heating enough for our purpose ?
Are these LLVP acceptable for our house and situation ?
Does they spare me money instead of using 3-4 electric heaters from 2Kw each ?
The Jula have 2 years warranty but does anyone know the warranty of the Byggmax and Cheapy machine ?

Thank you for your time to me to make a good decision
If you need more information please let me know.
All information I appreciate.

Mvh
Schenk

[rocas]

It is essential to buy a pump with quick connection.

Otherwise you will not manage to do the intallation on your own.

Buy the one from JULA. It is pretty easy to install, but be careful with the indoorpipes when you pull them trough the wall.

[Jästen]

Since you can't use ROT I think the obvious choice is to go for the Jula heat pump that you can easily install yourself. It's got quick connection (QC) for the gas so you don't need any special tools or "skill" to do it.
There is a special section for that manufacturer here also.
http://www.varmepumpsforum.com/vpforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=eohvbc7rb4tr7bmn9fvb8lq5n5&board=120.0

[Schenk]

Hej

Thank you both and I will read that section. I did not know that.
But Rocas, what do you mean by "be careful with the indoorpipes when you pull them trough the wall"
Do you mean to be careful so that I don´t bend or fold the pipes or is it something els ?
And is 3,5KW enough ?

Mvh
Schenk

[robot74]

Dont waste your money buying a crappy heatpump from Jula. Using it for cooling is ok but it is real bad when comes to produce warm air when it is cold outside. Buy a real heat pump whith installation will make you a happy owner.
Refrigeration, air conditioning and heat pump equipment for private use

Individuals are also affected by the new EC legislation on fluorinated greenhouse gases. It is now prohibited as a private person installing such pumps. This must be done by someone who is certified.

The previous Swedish regulation was an exception to the requirements for individuals would be able to install such heat pumps. This is now removed, and it requires a certified person performing the work, regardless of the refrigerant amount. When you hire someone to install for example a heat pump, you should verify that the certificate is valid.

[HWM]

Hi, agree with previous, Jula is a good shop, but not for this kind of installation. You are in Värmland, fire wood ought to be free of charge, a good stove with some "täljsten" around to keep the heat for some time. And maybe combined with a solar hot air unit. A 1 sqm unit from Bauhaus @ about 5000 SEK. Will generate warm air any time sun is out, buit in solar cells runs the fan, so fresh varm air into the house, even when you are gone. A small handvalve can lead the varm air to the basement on very hot days, dries out that area. Which might not be that often.....good luck! Less mechanics - less problems.

[Schenk]

Hej

I agree that Zibro or any DIY machine is not like a Q-Heat or something like that but if I look at the price then it make a lot of difference. Q-Heat 630 with 6.3KW heat power including installation cost ±20.000sek
As I describe we mostly need it to warm-up the house before we arrive in May when the outside temp is not so cold anymore so the house feel more comfortable and it is not so cold anymore in the house when we arrive.
We also going to buy a woodstove so when we arrive then we use the woodstove.
Solarventi is nice to keep the house fresh but the warm air is so little that it does not warm-up the house so much. Unless you have a better experience then I like that to know.
Conclusion is that from the beginning that we thought about a LLVP we like to have a Q-Heat 630 but the cost is not proportional to the need and special by the high installation cost because we have no ROT avdrag, therefor we look for an acceptable solution and look for a DIY LLVP
I look forward if you know a better solution

Mvh
Schenk

[HWM]

Hi, my summerhouse is 80 sqm. Kep at 5 + all year. With one Contura stow and one small cast iron it takes about 1 hrs to get to 18-20 C. The trick is a small PAX fan or similar behind to circulate the air. I had remote control of electric radioators for pre varming up, but gave up after 2 burned units due to lightning, being at the end of the line, GSM might work better. Warm air by the sun might not deliver what you want, but I would evaluate fresh air higher, than warm upon arrival. LLVP I don't know about, but simplicity must be a key, these things tend to brake when you are away, hence the hesitation vs Jula and DIY.

[rocas]

I installed a Zibro 3,2 kw one year ago.....and it still works fine....especially when the outdoor temp is above - 10 C.

Quick Connection system prevents leak of gas.......as far as I can see

[Schenk]

Thank you.
We never been there when it is -10 but normally we are there when it is over +10°
Does the outside unit frees when it is under -10 and does that not harm the outside unit if it is not in use ?
And most important question is : is 3.2KW enough for 65 m2 space even with no insulation in the walls and old sawdust insulation in de floor and roof ?

[Rickard]

3.2 kW should be enough, and if not, you can keep one of the radiators?
The heatpump can not freeze, in the sense that i breaks, the R410A gas gets down to -50°C in "normal" use.

[Schenk]

OK, thank you all

Mvh
Schenk

[Avarage]

The hous is small. The outside temp. are pretty high (>10C) when you need the heat. I would go for the Zibro S-1332 with quick connections.

Remember though that even if the unit have quick connections so you and I CAN install it we are not allowed against swedish law (depending on the refrigirant R410A and the environment). BUT, a lot of people install them anyway and I only want to make you aware of what rules are applied.

One more apportant issue is the warranty. If you install it yourself the warranty are not valid. I spoke to Jula about this a while ago.

Another drawback is support if you have any trouble with it and need troubelshooting. There might be problem finding any technician willing to work with the pump since they haven´t installed it.

When installing the indoor unit you need to be carefull when bending the pipes. Bend them gently and not to small radius.

An option to an expensive Q-Heat 630 could be a smaller pump Ex. Mitsubischi FD 25. You get one of these installed and ready for apr. 15 000 kr.

Or you could by a Frigo Line FLSC-09HRDN1QC2 (I have one in my garage). The price is 8803 kr + installation or go for the sheaper one (OnOff) FLSM-09HRN1-A for a price of 7356kr + installation. You fins info. of them here: http://www.refrico.se/fileadmin/LANG_SW/Mediabase/prislista/E_Flaktkonvektorer.pdf (page 2).

Give them a call, they are very good to deal with. I´m sure they can finding a good company for installation close to your house.

Good Luck!
// Niklas

[Jästen]

Q-Heat 630 = Mitsubischi FD 25

[Avarage]

Q-Heat 630 = Mitsubischi FD 25

65 m2